Thursday, March 31, 2011


No comments:
Guys, this video you are using to promote The Zeitgeist Movement and The Venus Project is a propaghanda peice from The Church of Scientology's front group Youth for Human Rights.

The videoin question, notice the comments and video description:

Where the video came from:

Proof it's a Scientology group:

What the hell are you doing promoting The Church Scientology?

Monday, March 28, 2011

TVPChallenge Responds...

No comments:
UPDATE: Noticing the lack of Zeitgeist during the last "ZDay" events I've decided to end the conversations with TZM. It's a dead movement, they've had their 15 minutes and it's slipped into the dustbin of history as just a minor blip in history. Phase 1 was a failure and it's time to move on to bust up other myths and collective delusions. My videos will stay up with comments disabled as my ode to their long standing history censorship. So long and thanks for all the death threats.  

UPDATE: I got this message from TVPChallenge: 

 (FYI, this isn't the vid I was telling you about, addressing the ECP and the value system.) YT uploads really slow, so I may not get those up 'til tomorrow, since I'll have to go to bed soon =/
So this isn't the video addressing the ECP, but in these videos ECP is addressed. Just note this isn't her offical retort. 

...well not really. This is again just rehashing the mistakes Peter Joesph Merola in response to Stefan Molyneux with some other errors sprinkled in. Look, I appreciate any attempts to solve this riddle that has confused some of the brightest minds that have ever supported any sort of centrally planned economy. This riddle is still let unanswered even in wake of this video.

Why? Because there is no answer to this question, it's just assured that all will be well once we hand over the keys to a select group of engineers and then they will be responsible for this burden. Now even with that said, it's the closest I got to a rational response on the economic calculation problem I have heard from any Zeitgeister because on the surface it seems as though it is addressing the problem, but it's really not.

 Their misunderstanding of basic economics regarding planned obsolescence and being FORCED to participate in the monetary system (which is patently absurd considering the numerous ways one can 'live off the grid') are really irrelevant even if they are true. Why? To say we're going to take a 'scientific' approach instead of this isn't answering how we approach this, it's just saying "We don't know now, but we'll figure it out when the time comes."

No. Not only is this a non-argument, it's unscientific. It's unscientific to use the science to reach a particular predetermined conclusion. How do we know that the scientific consensus after we get to R.B.E. Land is "Sorry, we need money?" Will we force science to comply with no money our ideology? Well then fine, but let's not pretend we still talking about science anymore, we're talking about pseudoscience.

It's taking a lot of restraint for me to get distracted by this videos attempt to divert and steer the conversation away from free-market to the current system. The utterly stupid debunked arguments that Marxists have been putting out for 100 years, that just fails in the face of reality. Peter Joseph Merola is a master in propaganda, so it's his forte to never admit any kind of error and divert legitimate criticism into a set line of shop talking points. When he does get nailed to a corner about the free market, he delves into a classic reductio ad absurdum logical fail.

So does this answer the economic calculation problem? No, you' re promising me that your supercomputer and your team of engineers will figure out the problem when the time comes. How about figuring out a solution before promoting it as the end all be all of human evolution? Hm?

Let's say tomorrow and everyone agrees that maybe they were wrong about the Zeitgeist movie and we need the RBE and they want it now, what algorithm will you install in your computer to distribute goods? That's the question we're asking. How EXACTLY will it work? How EXACTLY can you calculate an iPhone4 minus a cheeseburger? Not give me a hazy idea on how it could work, and pretend it's an answer.

Now before you respond to this and attack my position; may I remind you that 'debunking' free-market economics, even if valid, does not mean that we should all hop on-board. Ergo I will not respond to attacks on the free-market, because it is irrelevant. You need to show me the algorithm if this is your argument.

Sunday, March 20, 2011

I got a bite.

No comments:
UPDATE: Noticing the lack of Zeitgeist during the last "ZDay" events I've decided to end the conversations with TZM. It's a dead movement, they've had their 15 minutes and it's slipped into the dustbin of history as just a minor blip in history. Phase 1 was a failure and it's time to move on to bust up other myths and collective delusions. My videos will stay up with comments disabled as my ode to their long standing history censorship. So long and thanks for all the death threats. 

Sort of. Socialists and communists for decades have attempted to confront Mises on his Economic Calculation Problem but miss the point of what Mises argument is. Otto Neurath, an Austrian-born (not Austrian school, thought I should clarify, the "article" they created gives the impression to someone Otto was a free-marketeer who disagreed with Mises) socialist economist who attempted to debate Mises is what they went with for a rebuttal. Otto concludes that a new system of calculation can develop in in place of missing prices. Zeitards contend that their super computer will somehow work itself out, once we find the right algorithm.

To this day, Austrian economists still contend Mises has not been addressed, even with citing Otto's attempt. Why? The calculation problem isn't about how complex the problem of distributing resources without a price system, it's about marginal utility.

Jacob Spinney has already addressed this in one of his videos, so I'll save myself typing.

For a more in-depth explanation which includes addressing Otto Neurath's argument, I provided you with a lecture by Joseph T. Salerno who wrote the post-script to Mises' article.

Monday, March 14, 2011

So You Want To Debate Me on Zeitgeist, eh? (DEFUNCT)


UPDATE: Just like the rest of the world, I'm over debating TZM. Feel free to comment, I will not respond or read. 

Recently a skeptic blogger Muertos issued a challenge to The Zeitgeist movement in this video:

In it he sites a book that discusses proposals by other futurists with concepts identical concepts as The Venus Project and how they do not work and always transitions with violence no matter if they advocate it or not. The book he sites is James C. Scott's "Seeing Like A State." He will not debate anyone from The Venus Project or The Zeitgeist Movement unless they have read this book first so they understand his position first. This is a more than reasonable request considering Zeitards demand you watch 2 long Zeitgeist Films.

I decided this was absolutely a great idea for me too. I haven't read the book in question just yet, but I will propose my own challenge to the Zeitgeist/Venus Project community. I have a hard time nailing these guys down to one subject at a time, or tossing straw man arguments regarding my position. My main objection to The Venus Project is predominantly the economic calculation problem in socialized systems as proposed by Mises. The argument is this; in a centrally planned economy, and more so in cashless economies, you cannot properly gauge where resources should be allocated unless you turn these heterogeneous things into something homogeneous that reflect the most up-to-date needs as a organic free-market price system. A central computer, no mater how smart, can not correctly calculate an iPhone4 minus a cheeseburger unless there is a bottom up price system that reflects the time, energy, resources, incentives and demands to fulfill the needs of the consumer.

For example let's say on a very small scale we wanted to make a small calculation. What should we make given we can only create so much in a small amount of time, given limited resources. An iPhone4 for person #003443 or a cheeseburger for person #003533 and have extra time and resources to spare for other requests. Unless there is a system that reflects to both the consumer and the producer the true time, energy, resources, demand and scarcity that is homogeneous, you would not know what to calculate.

iPhone4 = $399.99. Cheeseburger = $2.99
So iPhone4 - Cheeseburger = $397.00
iPhone4 - Cheeseburger  iPhone 3Gs

It seems to fall in line with black and white thinking when I bring this up to TZM people. If I disagree with their system then I support the 'status-quo.' Nothing could be further from the truth for me, and if Mises were alive today he would have nothing but bad things to say about how the American Government has been doing since his death. So it's a moot point bringing up criticisms of the current system we all share.

Now, because of the type of non-responses I get I am now issuing my own price of admission for this debate. It's cheaper than Muertos' read a whole 400 page book price, but it's equally as challenging. Read the 50 page article and postscript to Economic Calculation In The Socialist Commonwealth by Ludwig von Mises. It  was written before Mr. Fresco was even born, but it doesn't negate the overarching problem with The Venus Project; whats an iPhone4 minus a cheeseburger in a world with no prices?

After you have read the book you may not argue with me any of these points:

  • This is different, he's talking about socialism, this is a straw man! 
Not really, he's talking about ideas proposed by socialists that The Venus Project has adopted into the R.B.E.; central planning of an economy. Now explain how socialist calculation problem does not apply in an R.B.E.
  • Price is controlled by the Federal Reserve inflating the money supply. 
Right, however Mises is not in favor or arguing for fiat currency. Fiat money cannot be a true reflection of marginal utility and is causing a lot of the problems we're seeing today. There's a vast array of workable non-coercive value based monetary systems that have been tried or are still being used today to see as examples. 

  • You do not understand The Venus Project, do your research.
I think I have done a fair job of understanding it, please tell me where I am wrong on my assessment of the economic model as it is pertaining to The Venus Project. Enlighten me, don't make empty rebuttals. Also if there is a key piece of information I neglected to notice, don't tell me to go though a stack of information and find it. If you know where it is, point it out to me.

  • How does the current... 
Let me stop you there, we're not talking about the current disasters. We both share your criticism of the current model in America. The issue is your solution.

  • No wait, how does this current system help the starving people in Africa?
The current system in America is not the cause of starvation in Africa. Africa is suffering from the same ideology Mises was advocating against; central planning. It's also an appeal to emotions, making me feel bad about people suffering in foreign lands does not mean we should go along with the R.B.E.. I feel bad kids are starving in Africa, so let us not have more of what's killing them. 

  • How does the "invisible hand of the market" work other than a God-of-the-gaps fallacy?
This tells me not only have you not read the paper, but not read anything regarding Austrian Economics. Please read the paper, then discuss it. 

  • Oh, I get it. You think we're Communists with robots! Hahaha! Please, it's not Communism you're just using a Red Scare tactic. 
No, it has to do with empirical observation. Please read the paper.

  • I don't want to read that paper, I'll just go by your summary. 
No read, no debate, no exceptions. In this paper they address many objections you will bring up. Why should I explain what the paper already said about your argument. I'm not your mother, read it yourself.  If you object to reading, I have an audio book version on YouTube for you. If I watched 8 hours of Peter Joesph Merola movies for you and you won't read for 2-3 hours for me then you're not worth my time.

So if you think your system can stand up to the test if rational discourse and not blind faith, read the paper and spank me intellectually. I'll take 2 kinds of correspondence, Skype or e-mail. Just leave a comment below. Remember: I will record/log the entire discussion and present it on this blog and/or my YouTube Channel.

UPDATE: I have reduced the requirement for this challenge. All you need to do is watch this 1 videos in it's entirety.

Wednesday, March 2, 2011

An Update! (Cali, baby!)

Ok, I think i'm almost done settling into my new place in Hollywood Hills, CA. Over the last week I have been battling another group of deluded assholes known as The Zeitgeist Movement. Tomorrow I will post up the video debates I've been having.